Now let’s get to better know Philip’s children by his second wife: John, Rachel, Elisabeth, Jacob, Peter and Mary. I believe that was their birth order with John born in about 1749, Rachel born about 1755 and let’s just say the others -- 1756 or so to, say, 1765 or so.

Now I think all of these children were named at least once in one of three series of church records:

The records of Rev Waldschmidt who, as I pointed out, rode a circuit up until about 1780 that came quite close to or included Robeson Township.

The records of Schwartzwald Reformed Church in neighboring Exeter Township. I think the Robeson Klingemanns adopted that as their home church when Waldschmidt stopped serving the area where they lived.

And also about the same time that the Klingemanns of Robseon started going to Schwartzwald Reformed, the three daughters, I believe, including our Rachel, moved to York County and subsequently came to be named in records there.

So here is a series of church records which represent every mention of the Klingemanns in Waldschmidt or Schwartzwald records and selectively in York County (remember those other Klingemanns were in York County by the 1770’s as well).

I include the transcribed citation -- and parenthetically my comments.

13 Jul 1773.  Waldschmidt.  John Nicholas Jost, son of Nicholas Yost married Regina Klingemamn, daughter of Johann Philip Klingemann.  [I believe Regina is none other than Philip’s daughter Rachel, a point I will attempt to prove in several ways -- but one way is in fact Regina’s clear association with the Robseon Klingemanns. Note that Regina’s father was referred to clearly as John Philip.] 

25 Dec 1778.  Waldschmidt.  Jacob Klingeman and Eva Hoffman sponsored the baptism of Jacob Herry.  [I believe this was Jacob mentioned in Philip’s will, maybe about age 20, not yet married. Eva Hoffman is the sister of the woman Jacob’s brother John married, Christine Hoffman.]       

2 May 1779.  Waldschmidt.  John, son of Nicholas Jost Jr. and Regina baptized. He was born 18 Apr 1779. Sponsors John Klingeman and Christine.  [I consider this record to be of tremendous significance. There is no doubt that John was Philip’s son who married Christine Hoffman, daughter of Michael of Robeson Township. I could cite hundreds of examples in German churches where the sponsor at a baptism (John in this case) was the brother of one or the other of the parents (Regina in this case). So, John was Regina's brother, meaning she was Rachel.  This baptism also occurred about the time Nicholas and Regina moved to York County so I believe they "came home" for this baptism and since John is not the name of either Nicholas' or Regina's father, I believe that the infant was the namesake of John. ] 

12 Apr 1784.  Waldschmidt.  John Mosser married Elizabeth Klingemann daughter of the late John Klingemann. In another transcription though, the surname was Kleing.  [If Klingemann, this is a real puzzler.  Who was the deceased John Klingemann?  Not the one who married Christine since he was still quite alive. Not John Philip because he would have been referred to as Philip or John Philip but not John.  Robeson Philip did have a daughter named Elizabeth but I do not think this was her. I basically think this was Waldschmidt somewhere else on his circuit -- note the 1784 date -- and the Elizabeth named in this record has nothing to do with the Robeson Klingemanns.]

I think the 1779 citation was actually Waldschmidt's last contact with the Robseon Klingemanns. I think it is about when Waldschmidt gave up his Berks County charges and when the Robeson Klingemanns started then attending the Schwartzwald Reformed church. 1779 was also about the time the Klingemann daughters moved to York County

9 May 1784.  Schwarzwald Reformed.  Johannes Klingemann and wife Christina sponsor the baptism of a daughter of John Fries.  [Christine’s sister Eve married John Fries. John and Christine again sponsoring a sibling’s infant’s baptism. In this case it is Christine and Eve the relevant siblings.]

7 Jul 1784.  Fissel’s Church, York County.  Abraham, son of Nicolaus and Regina Yost baptized. Abraham was born 10 May 1784.  Sponsors Abraham Yost and wife Elizabeth.  [I believe this Elizabeth was the daughter of that name, by his second wife, of Robeson Philip. I believe she married Abraham Yost for reasons which become clearer from another baptism later in 1785, see below. Abraham Yost, the other sponsor, was Nicholas' brother.]  

8 Jan 1785.  Schwarzwald.  Catharina daughter of Peter Klingemann and unnamed wife baptized.  [I believe this was Robeson Peter who we know married Margaret Englehard.] 

17 Feb 1785.  Trinity Lutheran, Reading.  Johann Klingemann and Christina baptize son Johann Michael.  [Now all the other baptisms cited in this list were Reformed so it is curious this is Lutheran. I really can’t explain it. I believe the Hoffmans, like the Klingemanns and Yosts -- were all Reformed. An anomaly.]   
30 Oct 1785.  Schwarzwald.   Johannes Klingman and wife Christina sponsored the baptism of Johannes Hoffman. Then on 16 Dec 1791, the same couple sponsored the baptism of Jacob Hoffman at the same church.  [The infants here were Christine's nephews in both cases.]
 
13 Nov 1785.  Freidensaal Church, York County.  Elizabeth daughter of Abraham and Elizabeth Yost baptized.  Sponsors Jacob Hoffman and Magdelena Klingeman daughter of John Philip Klingeman.  [This is another anomalous Lutheran church citation.  And here is the other example of reference to, I believe Philip of Robeson, as John Philip.  Now while the Hoffman’s were closely tied to the Klingemanns through marriage, Jacob Hoffman had no particular relationship to either Abraham Yost or Elizabeth (who was definitely not a Hoffman). So I think Magdalena was “family“ here and Jacob Hoffman perhaps there with her. So who is Magdalena?  I believe she was in fact Mary, from Robeson Philip's will, the youngest daughter.  The name Mary Magdalena was one of the most oft-used combinations.  So Mary Magdalena has followed her sisters Regina/Rachel and Elizabeth to York County. And she is only family if Elizabeth was indeed also a daughter of Robeson Philip.]

6 Jan 1789.  Schwarzwald.  Jacob Klingemann and wife Magdalena sponsor the baptism of Jacob Sauerwein.  [Robeson Jacob.] 

1 Nov 1789.  Personal register of Rev Traugott F Illing (Lutheran minister).  John Klingman and Christina baptized daughter Elizabeth.  [Lutheran again.]  

So, to summarize. John Klingemann is very important to this analysis. He was close to both his Klingemann and his Hoffman families. He was close to Regina so she just had to be Rachel. Moreover, I believe each of Philip’s daughters in the above list, by her name as given, was not immediately recognizable. Regina was Rachel, Magdalena was Mary and Elizabeth was Mrs. Abraham Yost. There is little direct evidence for any of those assertions other than their association with each other and in places were the Robeson Klingemanns were the relevant Klingemanns of note.

IMMIGRANT. Based on the fact that Robeson Philip, by the time he died in 1774, had raised two sets of children by two different wives with most if not all of even the younger set of children having already reached adulthood, I think Robeson Philip had to have been well into his 50’s, if not even older than that.

So, consider the possibilities:

Maybe he was born in America to a father who came before records were kept of German immigrants to Philadelphia. But I doubt it. The earliest wave of Germans came to Pennsylvania as early as the 1680’s but not that many came then and because Grandma Mertz had a good number of ancestors from among this group, I have studied many early Pennsylvania records and I just think I would have seen the name somewhere.

Maybe he himself came as in immigrant before 1727. I would argue the same about those that came in the second surge starting in the early 1720’s (it was that surge that motivated the authorities of Pennsylvania to begin recording the names of every arrival and that began in 1727). Anyone who survived and had children who survived was simply here long enough that some early mention in some record would exist. I can find no mention of anyone named Klingemann prior to the 1740’s.

Maybe he came as a young man after 1727 -- perhaps with his first wife and one or more of his children -- but his name was so corrupted on the passenger lists that it is unrecognizable. But I did as thorough a search considering that possibility as I could think to do. I cannot find anyone who could be him.

Maybe he was the son of one of the Klingemanns whose name was recorded. But even children were listed on the ship Samuel, so he couldn’t have been the son of Hans George or Yorich. And Jorg Philip came in 1743 and our Philip -- even if he were Jorg Philip’s son -- was old enough to have been listed as an adult male in his own right by then.

Maybe he didn’t come through Philadelphia or maybe he was on a ship for which the names were lost. I would just think, if that were the case, that I’d have other similar German ancestors whose arrival couldn’t be detected. I just don’t think I can name any.

So the almost inescapable conclusion is that our Philip was in fact, Jorg Philip. But I’m about to say why I think that is not true. Bottom line: I’m stumped.

Everything I know about this man comes from his will. The will of Philip Klingman of Robeson Township, Berks County was written the 3rd day of January 1774 and proved 12 Jan 1774. So we can pretty well closely bracket when he died. He was an inn keeper. He mentioned Michael (his oldest son), Barbara and Elizabeth as the children of his first wife and John, Rachel, Elisabeth, Jacob, Peter and Mary as the children of his second wife, Elizabeth.

Klingemann was not a common name -- though there were just enough mentions of the name in the mid-1700’s to cause some confusion -- and not enough to create clarity. It would have been nice had Philip referred to his daughters by their married names, as Rachel, I believe, was already married by the time he wrote his will -- unfortunately he did not.

So Philip’s children by his first wife were: Michael, Barbara and Elizabeth. I can’t really point to any records and say for sure those are any of those three children.

There were a slew of children born to Michael and Anna Elisabeth Klingmann, baptized at St. Michael's Lutheran in Philadelphia, from 1757-1775, including Elisabeth, Regina (born 1759), Barbara, Catharina, Michael, Ann Elisabeth, Jacob, Hanna, Georg Philip, Johannes and another Michael.

Was this Michael, son of Philip? I don’t know. It is curious that he named a daughter Regina, the name I think Philip’s daughter Rachel went by at times.

It is also curious that he named a son George Philip -- keeping alive the question of whether Robeson Philip was in fact Jorg Philip from the ship Phoenix.

But in the end, I don’t know if Philadelphia Michael has anything to do with my Klingemann family or not.

And remember that lone church mention of the man named Jorg Philip cited previously.

He and wife Elizabeth baptized daughter Elizabeth in 1749 at New Hanover Lutheran.

Robeson Philip had two daughters named Elizabeth, one by each wife. We know his second wife was named Elizabeth, nothing rules out that maybe his first wife also was named Elizabeth.

But there are two things that seem to rule out that this was Robeson Philip..

For one thing I think the family of Robeson Philip was Reformed, not Lutheran. [Even this simple point is difficult to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt, but it is what I believe.] Jorg Philip’s only known mention was at this Lutheran Church.

For another thing, the date doesn’t really work for either of Philip’s daughters. I believe he listed his children by each wife in order in his will. Descendants of John, oldest son by the second wife, think he was born in 1749. Rachel, I think, was born in 1755 -- so daughter Elizabeth by the second wife was even younger.

And if first wife Elizabeth was still alive for the 1749 baptism, how was there time for her to die, Philip to remarry, and have son John by his second wife in 1749?

Clearly if I wanted to believe Jorg Philip was John Philip, I could argue all those points the other way. It is what makes this family so damn frustrating.